I've been told for numerous releases that Infragistics was going to beef up their documentation (as it used to be for releases years ago) and it has yet to be changed. I've provided samples over and over of things that should be easy to do (and are once you figure out the magical method that isn't documented) but aren't listed in the help file because it's automatically generated using a tool that only lists classes without examples, or decent usage examples, or even context for usage.
I'd like to challenge Infragistics to either live up to their word on the documentation OR hire a developer that has never used their controls before and have that developer try to create a robust site with both server-side and client-side code, using their controls AND only able to get information from the documenation/help file.
I don't think it can be done, or easily done at the very least. Not without having to constantly turn to the forums, or simply pulling one's hair out.
I agree, the documentation is lacking. And the forums feel like a wasteland, many posts never get an answer. And many of the questions asked could easily have been avoided with a more robust examples area.
revbones and NervousRex:
Thanks for taking the time to post here to let us know how you feel about our docs, samples and forums.
Please allow me to introduce myself. My name is Craig Shoemaker and I have recently taken on the position of Product Guidance Manager. Inside Infragistics the Product Guidance (PG) department is responsible for our docs, samples, startup solutions and any other deliverable that our customers use to learn our products.
Rest assured your frustration and concerns have not fallen on deaf ears; we are listening to you and are in the midst of a fundamental change in the way PG writes and presents content to our customers. You’re right that you’ve been told for years that, “things will change in the docs” and release after release you’ve seen the same result. Let me say, though, that our 11.1 release features a distinct departure from how we’ve approached our docs and samples in the past. Internally we’ve changed the way each department interacts with PG in order to make sure the coverage of our docs is more complete. Further, we are unveiling new and easier ways of accessing content in our docs. Finally, our quality control standards and checks are at levels higher than ever before.
I would love to have a chance to chat with the both of you over the phone if you would like. I’d really like to hear any other ways you think we can improve.
Either way 11.1 is the release where you’ll see significant change!
Best,
Craig Shoemaker
Product Guidance Manager951.310.4496cshoemaker@infragistics.com
Chris:
You're right. I said back in November, "Either way 11.1 is the release where you’ll see significant change!" Here we are in July and a truly significant change didn't happen. Now, I can list through all the reasons of why we didn't make this radical change as described, but unfortunately that doesn't help get you home any earlier today.
Allow me to offer you this...
What I expected for us to ship in terms of a new experience back in November is not yet ready for release. We realized that in the long run we needed to separate the release of our website with the product release so that we can manage the projects separately. When I speak about "our website" I'm not necessarily talking about just samples, but an integration between product information, help documentation and samples. It's not here yet, but it's on the way.
All of this, though, still doesn't speak to your pain points. If I understand you correctly you just want more full-bodied guidance on how to use the WebDataGrid. You want better API documentation and you want more "real world" samples. The reason we didn't meet your expectation here is because I directed my guys focus 100% on building content for the samples and topics for new products and features which accompanied 11.1. I made that decision so that customers using the new controls would likely NOT be in the same position you are in with the WebDataGrid.
So where does that leave WebDataGrid and its contemporaries? Well I can tell you right now that we are working hard to grow our department in order to give us the people needed to spend time on not only new content, but also give time and attention to our existing products. (I fully intend to use your idea of having someone build an application with only the use of samples and topics to continue to find problem areas.)
For all of our guidance as a whole, we are using new methods for interfacing with our Engineering staff on the product teams to have better samples and topics coverage for new controls. We also now have in-house editing staff who take ownership of the documentation and are helping us greatly increase the quality of the docs. Further, we are working on a cheat sheet for the WebDataGrid (and subsequently other grids) to allow quick access to the grid's capabilities. (I am planning on updating the sheet this week with more examples and we'll continue to grow it as well.)
All of the items that you have cited and more are on the table and have my attention. Thanks again for all your comments. I have a long-term view of what we’re doing here, and while some changes are coming slowly, we’ll never be “done” improving.
Craig
Well, it's another year/release later and nothing has changed in the documentation.The CSOM stuff is still completely autogenerated from XML comments with absolutely no usage examples. The regular documentation is not much better with poor organization and any usage examples are lost and a developer must struggle to find them due to the structure being retained based on grouping by things like Behaviors, Columns, Events, Templates.
Does Infragistics plan at all to make any changes regarding documentation and examples??? The online examples were better before the new layout. We have already started implementing Telerik's controls in some new projects simply because development speed is increased due to adequate reference materials and examples compared to Infragistics.
revbones:
I’m sorry to hear about your decision to change vendors. Among the changes we’ve made lately we’ve made significant strides in the NetAdvantage for jQuery API documentation and company-wide spend much more time planning our samples and topics before we write them to make sure there is a balance between conceptual and practical information.
If there is anything else I can do for you please let me know.
The NetAdvantage jQuery package is made specifically for ASP.NET MVC and some things are considerably difficult when trying to make use of the package elsewhere.
The problem is, that I like many people have used Infragistics for 10+ years and been loyal developers along the way by promoting Infragistics controls through our careers. Until the switch to the newer framework, I could readily count on the documentation to completely document each method, provide usage examples, etc... We have never had adequate documentation on the newer framework and as previously mentioned it's obviously just auto-generated by a tool and almost a complete waste (while the CSOM documentation is actually a complete waste). When we complain you have to point to improvements in other products since there have been none in the ASP.NET documentation despite promises spanning well over a year.Given the dramatic difference at this point in development speed due to adequate documentation/samples/etc... I'm sure that we won't be the only ones moving to other controls. It's not that I'm trying to hold that over Infragistics heads, as I'm only one developer (but along the last 10 years, I'm responsible for whole teams from at least 5 client companies purchasing licenses). It's that I'm upset because a product that I've been able to count on for 10+ years is turning unusable because of the documentation shortcomings.
We don't take your past loyalty lightly. Whether you're represent one person or many developers what you face and your feedback is important. (When I am talking about how we can improve what we're doing and when we're planning I am often thinking about you and your comments specifically.)
I understand exactly what you're saying regarding the CSOM documentation. When those products were first being made that team was smaller than it is now and even though that team has expanded - we just have many priorities vying for attention.
I appreciate your answer to my frustrated venting. Unfortunately those other priorities you mentioned often rank things like making the Infragistics website less usable to developers/users than correcting other shortcomings. As it stands now, once I navigate to a specific forum such as the WebDataGrid one, when I search it searches all forums rather than the one I'm in. Not only is the site slower and more difficult to find information on such as the samples/demos, but now I can't even search in the forums on the control I'm researching.